God creates out of nothing. Wonderful you say. Yes, to be sure, but he does what is still more wonderful: he makes saints out of sinners.
-Soren Kierkegaard
Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty.
-Plato
Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy.
-Aristotle
It were better to have no opinion of God at all than such a one as is unworthy of him; for the one is only belief - the other contempt.
-Plutarch
Your not going crazy Aurthur, your going sane in a crazy world!
-The Tick
You know, Arthur, when evil is afoot and you don't have any arms, you gotta use your head. When evil is ahead and you're behind, you've gotta do the legwork. But, when you can't get a leg up, you gotta be hip! You gotta keep your chin up, and kick some..
-The Tick
Faith is different from proof; the latter is human, the former is a Gift from God.
-Blaise Pascal
Blushing is the color of virtue.
-Diogenes
Say not, 'When I have free time I shall study'; for you may perhaps never have any free time.
-Hillel the Elder
Were I not Alexander, I would be Diogenes
-Alexander the Great (envying a homeless, smelly, rude Diogenes)
So strong is this propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions and excite their most violent conflicts.
-James Madison
Much of the self-righteous nonsense that abounds on so many subjects cannot stand up to three questions: (1) Compared to what? (2) At what cost? and (3) What are the hard facts?
- Thomas Sowell
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
-Soren Kierkegaard
Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty.
-Plato
Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy.
-Aristotle
It were better to have no opinion of God at all than such a one as is unworthy of him; for the one is only belief - the other contempt.
-Plutarch
Your not going crazy Aurthur, your going sane in a crazy world!
-The Tick
You know, Arthur, when evil is afoot and you don't have any arms, you gotta use your head. When evil is ahead and you're behind, you've gotta do the legwork. But, when you can't get a leg up, you gotta be hip! You gotta keep your chin up, and kick some..
-The Tick
Faith is different from proof; the latter is human, the former is a Gift from God.
-Blaise Pascal
Blushing is the color of virtue.
-Diogenes
Say not, 'When I have free time I shall study'; for you may perhaps never have any free time.
-Hillel the Elder
Were I not Alexander, I would be Diogenes
-Alexander the Great (envying a homeless, smelly, rude Diogenes)
So strong is this propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions and excite their most violent conflicts.
-James Madison
Much of the self-righteous nonsense that abounds on so many subjects cannot stand up to three questions: (1) Compared to what? (2) At what cost? and (3) What are the hard facts?
- Thomas Sowell
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
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Humanitarian Videos Submitted by GeeSussFreeK
In reply to this comment by GeeSussFreeK:
Hahah choggie, im glad you like this
In reply to this comment by GeeSussFreeK:
^It doesn't have to walk...TO KILL YOU IN YOUR SLEEP!
In reply to this comment by GeeSussFreeK:
Brain stuff!
http://fora.tv/2010/01/05/Jonah_Lehrer_How_We_Decide
In reply to this comment by GeeSussFreeK:
Well said! Your words have a simple elegance which has forever eluded me.
In reply to this comment by imstellar28:
There are quite a few digressions in this thread, but I don't think anyone has actually addressed the content of the video. The speaker is saying that groups are merely abstractions; that you shouldn't forsake the trees for the forest.
We all want to live in a happy, peaceful society - collectivist or individualist. I don't think theres any denying that. What the speaker is trying to illustrate with his tree/forest metaphor is that the soul of these two ideologies is actually quite different - despite the fact they share the same goals.
Expanding on the tree/forest metaphor, one might define a "good" forest as one with a lot of healthy, thriving trees. If, in walking through a forest, you came across an area where the soil was nutritionally deficient and the growth of all the trees in the area stunted, you might view this forest as somehow imperfect. To correct this flaw, you could cut down the largest tree you can find, grind it up into fertilizer, and spread it around on the soil to help the stunted trees thrive.
What actually happens though, when you cut down a tree to grow a forest, as it were, is you lose sight of whats actually important. Yes, by some definition you are fulfilling "the greatest good for the greatest number" but if you have to lose your soul to achieve some measure of "good", what have you really accomplished? You thought you were saving the forest, but the forest doesn't exist. The forest is only how your mind perceives a group of trees; what existed was a group of trees sharing the same habitat. All you did was kill one tree, and use it to fertilize another.
So my question has to be: What glory is there in forging a perfect society, if it has no soul?
That is the same sound I make when the limited format of text fails to fully convey the ideas in my head! Like when 2 missiles pass each other in flight hehehe (they don't call them missiles for nothing I guess!)
Anyway, I didn't mean to exasperate you. This was not my intent. You are always a very insightful and humble person here on the sift, and for that you have my greatest respect. Here's to the next delightful convo!
i find you an interesting person also.
and one i feel i can discuss things with that others may either take offense or become indignant.
thats why i wrote you.not to be inflammatory but to suggest your over-simplification of buddhism/christianity may not be close to a reality but rather closer to the western worlds abridged and condensed version.
western philosophy/theosophy could not exist without eastern philosophy/theosophy, not the other way around.
i pointed out that many in the western world take a myopic stance,not intentionally i would presume but rather one set by culture.i was not implying that you are myopic but that you were espousing certain well-grooved tracks used by many concerning buddhism.soundbytes usually perpetrated by the church itself and then parroted.
it is interesting to note that even teillhard de chardin remarked on the similarities of christs teachings and buddha.this was rejected by the church but i tend to agree with chardin.
while i agree that text is not a suitable and contextual medium to express such dynamic concepts and philosophies let me make a few observations and you tell me what you think.
1.you stated that buddhism does not recognize the "changing soul".this is an incorrect statement due to the fact that just about every precept of buddhism stems from ones journey and the self realization that one must change,grow to move on to a greater consciousness.
the primary vehicle for this is forgiveness,but while in buddhism this is a starting point and eventually should lead to an awareness where forgiveness is moot due to the fact that your choices will no longer need to be forgiven,christianity tends to view forgiveness in the latter stages of awareness.
which one is correct?that is for you to decide.
2.you stated that KARMA is not a vehicle of divine salvation,but that is a misnomer,it is very much a vehicle of divine salvation due to the fact that buddhist view all life as divine.while christianity views humans as dirt,sinful and unclean and the only path to salvation is through jesus christ.this is a very complex paradigm and i do not do this subject justice but that can wait for another conversation.while the concept in itself is simple,to express it in all its simplicity takes volumes.(just look at all the writings on this subject,many many perspectives).
these are only a few points.points i make to show that coming from a christian perspective may color the beauty and depth of buddhism.i do not feel you are a fundamentalist and that is a good thing because the teachings of jesus are beautiful as they are succinct but if viewed only from the eyes of the church i have always felt the meat of jeus christ's teachings have gone either misinterpreted or outright twisted.then again,i view religion with a suspicious eye and read the teachings from a different vantage point.
does this mean i am right and my views infallible?
no..that would arrogant.
but it does mean i have the ability to glean understanding that is not tainted by the church because i view the teachings from a different angle.
studying cultural religious history has given me context to better understand those teachings.
that has been a work in progress for 25 years and im still going,still learning and still fascinated by it all.
as always my friend..a pleasure discussing my favorite subject with you.
till our next conversation.
namaste.
You have to define terms when talking about such things, which usually makes talking about them on internet forums hard, and that is why I stopped commenting there because I saw the conversation tending to be negative.
While the nature of Buddhism is complex, no doubt, I garner most of the basic precepts of Buddhism. For instance, Karma, is not part of divine salvation but of ones life. There is nothing a higher power can do to restore you Karma as it is the direct action of your life. Karma is one of the essential elements of the rebirth cycle, so the fact that it is the direct consequence of your life, forgiveness (for an over all moralistic stand point, not living at peace with your neighbor) isn't available.
More over, Buddhists do not believe in the unchanging soul. An idea steaming from Dharma, that there is no such thing as self. This is a small but important point as this basic notion isn't really applicable to most people whom live in the west. Self reliance, determination, and ultimately identification all point to a one unique self...it is just the western way. This doesn't go to say that an American couldn't be a Buddhist, but the culture here is very toxic to it.
Anyway, mostly, from my perspective, Buddhism is about fundamentally different ideals that Christianity. Christianity stresses the need for an external power to rescue you from yourself. The Buddhist doesn't belief in self, or salvation, and as a consequence, forgiveness (we are talking about moralist forgiveness not about your neighbor stealing your car). I think this is where my point was being missed. Of course most every religion has a "golden rule", be at peace mindset, that wasn't what I was addressing though.
In reply to this comment by enoch:
In reply to this comment by GeeSussFreeK:
I have always found Buddhism rather neat personally. But I have to draw issue with your statement of forgiveness as a fundamental precept. The middle path doesn't usually care about forgiveness because it leads with the idea that people owe you things. The middle path is separate from such concerns. The real problem I would see with most Buddhist interjections into the life an any American is really, we don't want a middle path. We want stuff, to be the best, to life for this life! Buddhism isn't about that, it is about the flow of this life into the next, preparing yourself for the next phase. Living for the moment, and being a sports super star is incompatible with that world view...imo.
And what I heard from Hume was concern, not looking his nose down. Think of it from his perspective, he really things Christ could help this persons life, and that is how he said it. He thought, either in ignorance or wisdom, that Buddhism couldn't save him from his current situation and offered an answer. One could say it is out of place of a news anchor to not read news from his sheet however...but news hasn't been about that in ages.
And you don't hear about Buddhist extreamist because the media you listen to doesn't care.
http://www.tamileelamnews.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi/1/1557
i dont think you truly understand buddhism my friend.
many people take a myopic approach when dealing with different religions.it is really just a perspective thing i would presume.but buddhism is a far more rich religion than you are alluding to in your comment.
so just like christianity may have many variables,facets and understanding for you due to you actually BEING a christian,buddhism in all its variables offers a rich contextualization of theosophy.
while never confirmed by tangible evidence but only by hints and historical references there are some theologians that believe that jesus not only studied with the assenes and greeks but also buddhists.which if you read the gospels it is not so large a leap considering much of jesus's teaching have a buddhists element.
and yes..forgiveness is paramount.
sighs...ok man.
thank you for your thoughtful reply.
namaste.
I have always found Buddhism rather neat personally. But I have to draw issue with your statement of forgiveness as a fundamental precept. The middle path doesn't usually care about forgiveness because it leads with the idea that people owe you things. The middle path is separate from such concerns. The real problem I would see with most Buddhist interjections into the life an any American is really, we don't want a middle path. We want stuff, to be the best, to life for this life! Buddhism isn't about that, it is about the flow of this life into the next, preparing yourself for the next phase. Living for the moment, and being a sports super star is incompatible with that world view...imo.
And what I heard from Hume was concern, not looking his nose down. Think of it from his perspective, he really things Christ could help this persons life, and that is how he said it. He thought, either in ignorance or wisdom, that Buddhism couldn't save him from his current situation and offered an answer. One could say it is out of place of a news anchor to not read news from his sheet however...but news hasn't been about that in ages.
And you don't hear about Buddhist extreamist because the media you listen to doesn't care.
http://www.tamileelamnews.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi/1/1557
i dont think you truly understand buddhism my friend.
many people take a myopic approach when dealing with different religions.it is really just a perspective thing i would presume.but buddhism is a far more rich religion than you are alluding to in your comment.
so just like christianity may have many variables,facets and understanding for you due to you actually BEING a christian,buddhism in all its variables offers a rich contextualization of theosophy.
while never confirmed by tangible evidence but only by hints and historical references there are some theologians that believe that jesus not only studied with the assenes and greeks but also buddhists.which if you read the gospels it is not so large a leap considering much of jesus's teaching have a buddhists element.
and yes..forgiveness is paramount.
In reply to this comment by GeeSussFreeK:
Hey freedom fighter, posted a video you might find interesting. It is long though, so I don't know if you have time now.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Tom-Woods-Where-Do-Rights-Come-From#comment-922791
Anyway, I agree, and I'm glad you liked it
In reply to this comment by GeeSussFreeK:
Saw Avatar, the plots was kind of stale, but that 3-D was spectacular!